No Fixed Term Is Most Likely To Be Dismissed.

Experts believe that the process of soliciting opinions during the legislation of the labor contract law is too short. Foreign countries are "noisy" when legislations are made, and we are "noisy" when we implement them.

In March 2006, the draft labor contract law solicited opinions from the community.

It is said that this is the fifth law since 1949 that the Legislative Council has openly solicited opinions from the public, and has received up to 190 thousand opinions within one month.

In June 2007, the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress formally passed the labor contract law, and the outside comment on the new law focuses on labor rights unprecedented.

In March 2008, only three months after the formal implementation of the labor contract law, Zhang Yin, a member of the CPPCC National Committee and a female entrepreneur, issued the first call for the revision of the new law and the abolition of no fixed term contract.

According to the survey conducted by Chinese Entrepreneur Magazine, up to 70% of the surveyed enterprises hope that relevant departments of the state will modify and adjust the relevant provisions.

When a law has been issued for a long time, it is a heated argument when it is put into effect.

Some scholars even believe that the new labor law will destroy China's economy and become a stumbling block to the Chinese economy.

With the controversy going on, deeper labor and capital interests were stirred up, and more rich and poor sentiments were magnified, and broader public issues were involved.

The complexity of China's reality, which makes the balance between labor and capital interests and economic co-ordination development, must be clarified by a heated argument. The sharp momentum caused by the labor contract law is the sharp moment in this debate.

As far as the rule of law is concerned, once the law is passed, it is impossible to bargain.

However, in view of the reality of law operation and the interaction between law and man, we can still see people's activism strictly from the law, just as scholars say, and the amendment of legislation to practice is cruel and merciless.

In this sense, wide-angle observation and social analysis around law is not just a simple classification of opposition and approval.

This period is the opening speech, which revolves around the dispute over the labor contract law, starting from the fields of labor economics, labor research and labor relations, and sharing new words with the same topic.

Xia Ye Liang, the current guest, is professor and vice director of the foreign economic research center of Peking University.

The main research areas are new institutional economics, history of economic history and economic thought, public choice and public policy, and labor economics.

Feng Tongqing: Professor of China Institute of Industrial Relations, mainly engaged in trade union theory, labor relations and labor issues.

Liu Linping: Professor of Sociology Department of Zhongshan University, director of labor research and service center.

He is mainly engaged in the study of organizational sociology and labor issues.

"Without a fixed term, it can be understood that the term is very long and can be understood as very short, so the United States regards the non fixed term contract as the most easily terminable contract.

The most important point of Feng Tongqing's "labor contract law" is that when enterprises are unwilling to sign contracts with employees, then the labor contract law is regarded as a contract signed, and then to a certain limit, it becomes an unfixed period contract.

I think the best thing about the labor contract law is to force the short-term behavior of the enterprise to become a long-term behavior from the law.

Liu Linping "" in the mature market economy country, the labor relations have a development process, is the long-term game result.

The government finally recognized the outcome of the two sides' game and issued corresponding laws.

At that time, the rules were more in line with the interests of both sides.

This dispute took place in the process of legislation, not after promulgation.

Xia Ye Liang's new law soliciting opinions is too short. There are many problems that have not been discussed in detail. For example, there is no fixed term contract. Generally speaking, it seems that employers can not terminate the contract. Nandu: the labor contract law has been soliciting opinions for two years. It has been officially implemented for three months, and it has been very noisy at the two sessions of the whole country. Is it a bit unusual?

Xia Yeliang: because the process of soliciting public opinions is too short to implement the public opinion without sufficient expression.

Many similar laws have been published in China too fast, perhaps for a long time, but the time for public consultation is too short, and there are many defects and immaturity.

Compared with the new labor contract law, the stronger reaction is that the non fixed term contract will damage the interests of the employer.

The general understanding is that it is as if the employer is unable to terminate the contract.

In this regard, I think it may be necessary to add some subsidiary clauses and some additional explanations.

Now that it is market-oriented, labor law can not become a rule of iron rice bowl. It must be said that in some cases, dismissal is permitted.

In an enterprise, it is very normal to be dismissed because of violation of enterprise regulations, and it should not be protected by unfixed term contract.

Enterprises have the right to dismiss, but the use of dismissal should be especially prudent.

It can't be described in literary works, so long as the employer is angry and angry, he immediately reprimand and expelled the employee.

That is a disregard for workers' rights.

Nandu: Zhang Wuchang said that the new labor contract law will destroy China's economy. Is it so serious?

Xia Yeliang: it's a bit too big.

But he raised this concern and felt that there were many problems in the process of law making without careful discussion. I agree with that.

I think it should be more specific to discuss some practical problems.

Feng Tongqing: I don't think it's that serious.

The key is to say that enterprises will not fully enforce the law, raise costs, and disrupt enterprises. This is basically not the case.

The workers will not be in trouble with the enterprises because of their rights. If you do not execute, I will go on strike, and I will leave.

No, they have to maintain their own survival, enterprises to maintain their own business, workers to maintain their jobs, generally choose tolerance and tolerance.

But I think this is not good, so we must create a legal environment, to cultivate integrity of the law, including the implementation of technical assistance, or let the law be implemented slowly and effectively.

In some places, the legislative standards are too high in many standards that could have been negotiated by enterprises and workers. They all use the standard of interest. Instead, it is more serious than non legislation. What do you think the core of these arguments is?

Labor and capital contradictions?

Xia Yeliang: I think sometimes moral appeals prevail.

There is now a widespread moral opinion that if we stand in the vulnerable group to consider the problem, of course, this is the best choice.

The law is fair, and the law is more rational and logical, which has its own legal basis. That is to say, the law does not have to tilt towards the weak.

We must not allow the weak to suffer losses, but we must not lean towards the weak.

We should treat them as an equal relationship between employers and employees.

Although in practice, the right of management to speak is likely to be higher than that of employees, because employees themselves are disadvantaged groups, their right to speak is small, and they do not have strong self-reliance in the economy.

So, emotionally speaking, we may be more willing to sympathize with the employee.

However, this deviation should not be too excessive.

Some developed countries abroad have strong trade unions, labor relations research, no matter scholars or experts have many people to do such work.

Therefore, we should not oversimplify a problem. We should not think that employers are rich people. We can ignore their interests.

In the current labor contract law, there are some provisions that may be harmful to the employers of small and medium sized enterprises, or they have not been reflected.

Our aim is not to fight and destroy the rich, but to create more and more rich people in China.

Feng Tongqing: I don't think the contradiction between labor and capital is mainly due to the publicity of our legislation and the appropriateness of legislation.

The labor contract law itself aims at short term labor contracts to monopolize the rights and interests of workers. In legislation, it focuses on the standard of interests, for example, specific restrictions, how long the contract will take, and the maximum number of layoffs can not exceed the maximum number, for example, 8 hours work system. Overtime must be compensated.

Some of these things belong to the basic interests of workers, and I think legislation is stressed.

But if we expand the interest norm, we should use the interest norms in many standards which can be negotiated by the enterprise and the laborers. One is the fact that it is not suitable for many types of Chinese enterprises. It seems to emphasize the rights and interests of the laborers on the surface. But the objective is that the standard of legislation is too high, which leads to adverse selection, not only the adverse selection of enterprises, but also the adverse selection of workers.

In this way, the legislation itself can not objectively play the role of safeguarding the rights and interests of laborers, but it is more serious than not legislation.

When the first draft of the labor contract law was promulgated, the basic direction of interest norms was very obvious. Later, some adjustments were made, even though there were still some problems.

In my opinion, in addition to the basic interests, we should let more enterprises and workers gradually establish a system and a consultation process to solve this problem step by step.

Moreover, the problem of labor contracts can not be solved completely by legislation. The implementation of legislation itself should consider how to solve problems in a more long-term and effective way, so I emphasize the right norm.

Many things can not be done by law, and in fact, there are many customary laws in the interaction between enterprises and workers. They are things that have been established and established by the local community for a long time. They may not be ineffective. They may be more balanced.

Liu Linping: the most important point of this labor contract law is that when enterprises are unwilling to sign contracts with employees, the labor contract law is regarded as a signed contract, and when it reaches a certain limit, it becomes an unfixed contract.

This is a core issue.

From the perspective of organizational theory and labor rights, there is a concept, called internal labor market, whether the internal labor market is established and perfected, which is very important for the stability of the enterprise and for the stability of the whole society.

The trend of China's reform is the so-called free flow of labor and marketization.

This is generally good, but now the labour mobility is too high.

I think the best part of the labor contract law lies in the short term behavior of enterprise employment forcing it to become a long-term behavior from the law.

Long term behavior is beneficial to the stable operation of enterprises, to social stability, and to the development of workers themselves. In the long run, it is also conducive to the development of enterprises.

SMEs are most affected by the new law. The unfair treatment of Chinese enterprises is more obvious. Large and monopolized state enterprises are particularly good. The environment for SMEs is relatively harsh. Nandu: the reaction from enterprises seems to be more intense. Is this reaction real?

Feng Tongqing: I have worked as a worker for a long time. Although the media has been so busy, the two sessions have been so lively, and even some cases have been very lively, most of the workers are looking at it with neutral attitude, or even looking at it.

Because the legal standard is too high, or the legislative orientation has problems, it can not really apply to our enterprises and workers at present. It is hard to arouse the motivation and desire of the workers and enterprises to implement the law.

Nandu: now overtime work overtime, arrears of wages, pay no attention to pay no attention, whether the legal environment should be more concerned?

Xia Yeliang: I think this should be discussed in two categories, one is the normal rights of workers can not be guaranteed.

These include black brick kilns, enslaved labor, no overtime pay, and poor working conditions.

In another case, we should be too vigilant against employers.

Employers should not be overstressed and unable to continue expanding the scale of reproduction.